You are correct.
ive read your post 3 hours ago. it is now 2.28 in the morning. i have been thinking about this for over 3 hours. i need to be up by 6.30
Therefore you should understand that the following is created with limited sleep and energy, therefore possibly lacking a filter. context: me and jovanny discussed on this project’s future
this “essay” is a combination of a final “speech”, “goodbye”, a strong self reflection and a Thanks to all of the forum fighter crew, jovanny and myself. if you are wondering why some parts dont apply to you its because they dont.
ill start by talking about what i can interprate from your advice on the game.
We have taken on a incredibly difficult challenge without the tools or knowledge required to accomplish it.
Forum fighters is a big project, so big that 30+ people over the course of 2 years could not make a significant dent in it. this is not a shocker nor a disappointment. i wouldnt be surprised that even half of us were allowed to be on the forums when the project started due to our age.
however even ignoring our lack of motivation and knowledge an impossible challenge lies just a little way down the road: the fact wick isnt the strongest engine. you are right, it functions perfectly for new and esprireing coders and game makers to test the waters, trying to figure out whither the path of game making is the path they want to take. The problem comes when the limits of this engine are tested. this engine wasn’t designed with the possibility of making a full fledged game, its mostly for people to make flappy bird remakes, repeating atuo scrollers or silly games that are ment to spark something in you, not be the base of your next big project or your career. This is my fault for trying to force something out of something it cant make.
what does this mean? The End
forum fighters is like a big tree trying to grow in a small pot, we are the gardeners trying all we can but its just not possible. i shouldnt have been blinded by my own ambition, no wonder this topic is so dead and dried out, no wonder you guys are so tired. who wants to play a game that runs on 6 fps?! or even 13 with the help of external resources (aka pkhead literally modifying the editor itself)
it hurts to let go and it hurts to say this: this is The End of FF’s journey on the wick editor. and its not the engine’s or your fault, it was my ignorance.
what does this mean for you? specifically Baron, Pkhead, H.a, Kringles and myself?
you four are the ones that stuck with me and this project for 2 whole years, all of you contributing more to the actual project then i ever could or did.
All of you have shown an incredible amount of talent in this project.
Baron, you have crafted the engine that FF runs on. the base of our operations, the gravity the hit boxes, nearly all of it is you.
Pkhead, most likely having the most knowledge of coding between us, was able reform the editor itself to better fit the project as well as come up with a way to possibly create multiplayer within the editor.
H.a, you have shown that your knowledge of this topic is approaching professional levels. whats more in just the recent days youve shown that you have a strong character of determination, a kind and willful heart and a go getter attitute, traits that im sure will carry you through all walks of life. im sorry for taking all the time you put into this project and wasting it.
Kringles, you are a remarkable example of man with many talents. ive seen your abilty to create music, art, animation, coding AND concept design firsthand. you have a lot of potential. not to mention your character being a key part of your what you do!
im sorry for sucking the joy out of the things you love.
as one of the project heads (not leader) i give one last task. move on from the editor to greater places, greener pastures and bigger pots to grow your projects in. We as a team have grown past what the editor can provide.while im sure we all have our reasons for wanting to stay we’ll simply not be able to grow if we do. big plants need big pots.
go, even if not professionally. we all had our star projects we wanted to do.
if game design or programing is your future you cant stay in this nowhere town of the wick forums.
if you plan to make more ambitions works then you WILL hit a ceiling.
its better to move on now. trust me.
now a self reflection:
like i referenced earlier you all have your star projects. FF is mine, which by itself explains why im writing a massive essay to send off it. i jumped on the bandwagon of this project and regarded it as my own. if i managed to find all of them i problely have 40 pages of paper of varying sizes dedicated to the planning of this game. have spent many over 60 hours trying to draw a bee, hair and a person with no eyes. ive written at least 17 full word doc pages on the potential lore of this game and ive spent years trying to keep this plant alive. now i realize what im doing, just giving in to a dream.
unlike the most of you i do not desire for this to become my profession. best way possible: i was doing this because i wanted to, because designing a really sick enemy gave me a sense of self-pride i never felt. because designing a concept for a feature gave me passion, because it made me happy. for awhile it was an obsession, now its no longer.
i plan to study the topic of horticulture, maybe agriculture if my adjestions to my study life are effective. believe me i still love the idea of a becoming a game designer, but the task is too tall for me, and the path is a dangerous one. now a days designing a game is competition, a competition with uncertaincy ; a obstacle that i cant get over.
therefore i decide to choose a safe route.
but, this does not mean I give up. FF is a challenge i have taken on.in the future ill spend more of my free time learning JS, learning to animate, sound design, math, drawing humans and more. it might take a 3 years, 5,9 ormore but i dont care! the altimate gaol of the forum fighters is to make sure when someone plays this game, they’ll smile. and that’ll be good enough of a reward for me.
god my eyes hurt hehheh
i thank the wick editior for existing, for teaching me that my dreams can be possible, for teaching me that i can do something… and teaching me how to move on.
thank you to me crew, to sticking with me for these couple of years
and i especially thank you @Jovanny for helping me come to this conclusion, perhaps its time for you to move on too? maybe those collage students may use this forum and bring new life into it. The forums is a like a small town, not much conflict or evil happens here.
However there are worlds out there that need a light like you, and you know God doesnt want us to stay rooted and comfortable :)
i will be leaving this tiny but wonderful town soon, off to a bigger greenhouse to make my masterpiece! meaning there’s a good chance i might never meet you again. but ill make sure to shake your hand in “person” when he returns, if you get what i mean ;)
it is now 4.07. oh lord
good bye FF crew, you guys are in my current list best people on the internet. remain passionate, determined and hungry and foolish! take the risks and go concor the online world! ill make sure the food keeps growing
Thank you and have a nice future. Long live the Forum Fighters!
-> Amos C### T##### (Tryo) (heh, noticed how my initials spell out ACT? you should do that)
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thats a rather shallow way of thinking about this experience.
also, your claim would be reasonable if it came from any of the 4 people i mentioned, may i ask what you have contributed that has been wasted?
.
.
.
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in a strange way dashy, i sort of knew you’d be the first to answer. the first to jump at an opportunity. its not a bad trait you know? perhaps homing that trait onto something you love would be a better use of it :)
Over 4k replies, and I think this is the best one I’ve read so far. I’ve seen great things happen here.
If I’m being honest, I worked on this project bc I liked the idea that we were a team, this was the best team I’ve ever been a part of. Probably team isn’t the right word… I think Jovanny had a better word for it. It was “family,” that’s what he called the forums.
Tbh, if it wasn’t for Tryo to recreate this thread, if it wasn’t for people to jump back into action after every tree root that had fallen to time, I don’t think we’d even have been this far.
So I just wanted to thank you Tryo, you were a great motivation. I always liked looking through your designs and reading the stories you wrote. Even though you don’t see yourself as a leader, it still felt that way.
I’m not happy that FF is ending all of a sudden, especially with the plans that came… but after what I read about you said about the “future,” it’s all true.
Even after the voice call, I was wondering, “what’s next?”
All this time, it didn’t feel like the tree was growing. It reached a point where we were just decorating a tree. I said that back in March of 2021, and here I say it again.
There’s one last line that I’d like to emphasize…
Even if this ends now, do expect me, or someone else, or another group or whatever, to come back and pick up, the same way we always had when the tree started dying.
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another issue that was bound to come up was our skill level. we simply don’t have the coding knowledge to create a game of this scale while working with 5+ people, online, asynchronously, and without a “true” collaboration environment simultaneously.
so in the end, it came down to both the editor’s ceiling and how we accidentally lowered the ceiling.
scratch tangent
slight tangent, but i feel like scratch has a similar thing. it has a low ceiling (compared to that of, say, unity, unreal, love, etc), but there is a small handful (relative to the size of the community) of people with the skill and knowledge to think “how far can it go?”. people somehow linked scratch to repl.it before (literally no idea how), people have made 3D games, and of course, griffpatch is there. unfortunately, we don’t really have that coding knowledge.
scratch collabs usually look like “ABC makes some assets, DEF gives me some music, GHI makes sound effects, and I make the game itself and credit them in the description of the project”. very rarely would you see 2 people actually coding together on a scratch project. that’s what we’re having here as well.
if this project ever comes to life again, the only way I could see it happening is that one person just makes the whole game reusing assets (provided that they get the permission of course) and asking for new ones. it’s very hard to have 5 pairs of hands on one wick project, we’ve already tried. this is probably the reason the old FF died even faster: we had even more people than right now.
so for now, we may have to shelve this. maybe something changes and it becomes possible again, but it’s unlikely for anything crazy to happen for a while. so i guess thanks to everyone for helping out with this game.
and no, this effort wasn’t just for nothing, hopefully. I’m sure everyone learned something, whether it was about how to code, how to manage code, how to communicate, or-- well-- the limits of wick editor collabs. and this project was fun to try out-- for me at least.
also, nice tree metaphor tryo lol
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so you two, what will be your plans for the future? by which i mean what you’re aimning for in your studies?
Not sure I’d be able to answer that here on the forums since it’d be off-topic (rule #7).
I’ll send you an answer elsewhere though to avoid posting off topic things here.
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For some reason something inside me wanted me to share Steve Jobs speech… keep learning… life is about our experiences. Now you know more than 2 yrs ago… 
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As tryo said, wick is quite limited. We must either find a new editor or make this one better. FF is a very ambition project and it dying would break me. The forum fighters will prevail. I know it.
This is something that could put us all on the map. And making this has been a big journey. I’m very saddened by tryo’s “Departure” but if we find something better, ffr can live. A plant is a plant. With a bit of new soil and fresh water, this seed can be repotted. In the ground this time. And it will grow, flourish, and be admired by many.
This game, with a new engine could work, as shown by my we-lua performance tests, and when the kinks are worked out, this game can work.
Don’t let the flame die out
We all have a talent, let’s make something great. Here.
-JS
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also has the devs ever did patches before? to the editor
… dude, project stopped 2 days ago.
ALSO HEY @Hamzah_Al_Ani IKINDA REALLY NEED THAT CONTRACT YOU WERE WORKING ON BECAUSE IF I DONT HAVE IT HERE I MIGHT DIE 12 YEARS FROM NOW MEGA SWEAT
I realise that some of the people who just dropped off a single asset and left might come back and haunt me if they are that malicious…
Please protect me from the law with the law
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Oh, I did not know. My bad! Maybe I was too focused at school that I didn’t have much activity in the forums and I didn’t see the messages.
Are we still going ahead with this vc?
since tryo left the whole thing just fell apart, and even though the coaster is stopped, the ride has only just begun. We’re not even 10% done and we already quit?
I feel as if nothing ever lasts on this forum and in my life and not many can stay dedicated. I don’t want to be rude, but i can’t help but feel semi-dissapointed.
anthony asked us to not do the VC for safety reasons, so we aren’t doing that.
i wouldn’t say that tryo let the project fall apart, it’s more like nobody wanted to keep it going. more like more like we wanted to keep going, but didn’t want to go through the work to keep it going.
we had the core mechanics, right? i mean, it ran like a chromebook but at least not a potato. we had… a good amount of stuff.
sounds about right, collabs on wick are really hard to manage
also sounds about right, i feel like people subconsciously don’t like collaborating in wick because it doesn’t allow easy collaboration.
it’s sad to see this project go, but i think it was a better choice than powering through a buggy game.
whoops wall of text
Maybe we’ll find a new engine to bring this to life…
Well, I did. 
GO ON.
what is it?!?!
also i feel like i should mention this: i did some work in recreating this game in the Love2d game framework. so far i have:
- the biggie tree stage (the tree isn’t yet animated unfortunately),
- baron and pkhead’s attacks (not jumbleton though, because his move set is terrible who would play as jumbleton if all his moves take like 2 seconds to wind up)
- the title screen, buttons on the main menu, and a very crappy character select
- very rudimentary multiplayer (i was just trying to get multiplayer to actually work)
(by some work i mean i worked about 20-30 hours in total)
then make them take less time :troll:
If this is something we can somehow collaborate on then I’m all ears
Frankly, I’m a little hurt jumble, I’d never leave FFr, after all it is my adopted project and told you I was off to search for new lands. Which I did accomplish in that.
I’m sure you are all aware of “scratch” but did you know it had a bigger, stronger yet less popular cousin?
It appealed to me, since my plan was to invest years to learn the ropes of coding and Js for the perpose of re-coding the game in a different engine in my image. But it gave me a shortcut… A coding system in the flavor of scratch while also being hundred of times more capable: Gdevelop.
Now, I certainly can’t be seen advertising things like this on wick forums. Much less linking to another site! So this is a purely informative post to tell you where I’ve gone and what I’m planning, so far, I’m just doing theory crafting so that I can minimize having to go back on myself when coding,
The following photo is just a few of my many pages of planning…
Gdevelop is whole new world, and while it’s not difficult, it’s still challenging and new :p
Following me means not utilizing Js, and I new the rest of you work better with it.
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