What happened to free speech?

Site Feedback
#1

I agree with not making people feel bad about their identity or race but I don’t understand why these rules are needed in a forum consisting of animators and game developers. It feels like you guys are just jumping onto the bandwagon of forcing political correctness onto everyone and extinguishing any spark of creativity that may be slightly offensive to a given person. Luca, in the end, it is your forum, I just don’t necessarily agree with the rules that you have put in place and I feel like they violate MY free speech as well as everyone else’s. What if I feel like drawing a cartoon or animation that pokes fun at a certain type of person, religion, or culture? Maybe my cartoon portrays something “politically incorrect”? Should I then change the way I speak or express myself based on the way you say that I am “ALLOWED” to speak?!

I haven’t been on the forums for a while, and when I saw the big RULES section, I became fed up. I guess this stuff is being forced everywhere now. This is just one more company/organization that I will no longer be supporting.

Just so everyone is clear, I am definitely not a racist, and I personally don’t enjoy making fun of anyone. It’s just the control and infinitely massive list of rules that seem to restrict almost any kind of self-expression that really bugs me.

#2

I respect your freedom of speech and rights, but the rules are obviously there for a reason. You can always share your thoughts/ projects somewhere else online, but since this forum is a civilized one, rules are 100% required to give people a limit, as well as insure the safety and respect the reputation of others, even if that meant not allowing you to say certain things.

#4

I think that those rules are in place not to get rid of your right to free speech, but for a different reason. Like if someone else poked fun at a certain culture or religion e.t.c., then someone would probably feel offended or unwelcome.

Also, I don’t think Wick is a company/organization. Not really sure why I thought that. And I think you can make whatever you want with Wick Editor, even if it doesn’t abide by the forum rules. But whatever you share on the forums have to follow the rules. You can share your work anywhere else though.

3 Likes
#5

Exactly, I feel better and more secure with those rules, because now I’m sure that no-one would offend me. If I belong to a religion, or to a race, or gender preference, etc… We will not have those discussions here. I repeat, that makes me feel better.

1 Like
#6

If your “free speech” will be the excuse to offend, then is out of discussion.

1 Like
#7

I think it is.

#8

The company name is “Wickets LLC” or something like that.

The rules are to keep people feel safe, welcome, and secure. It’s not to defy freedom of speech. If making fun of a culture is your view of freedom of speech, I would do that where it’s allowed.

1 Like
#9

I think maybe the simplest way to look at this is that it would be unproductive. I realize topics like race/religion/etc seem highly political, so let me use an example that would probably not be taken as politicized. I could (hypothetically) make a forum post making fun of people who use Wick for coding but whose graphics are really simple, like “people shouldn’t share their projects if they can’t draw well because they’re ugly, lol”. That would be 100% nonproductive to people on the forum, it would probably make some people feel insulted that they put so much time and effort into their projects, just to have them shot down for that reason. As pumpkinhead mentioned, this doesn’t inhibit your ability to create, it’s just that the forums are intended as a space where people can feel comfortable asking questions and make suggestions related to Wick, regardless of qualities like race/religion/artistic ability, or what have you.

1 Like
#12

I think that we defended this point so well that @Luxapodular didn’t have to answer…

#13

Hi @Monaco1,

While I very clearly disagree with your point, allow me to explain why these rules (and rules like this) are not just “jumping on the bandwagon”.

The Goal of the Forum: The forum is designed to be an accepting and encouraging place for anyone to take part. We explicitly will not allow content that pokes fun, or disrespectfully refers to anyone, for any of their affiliations, or for who they are. Full stop.

Wick Editor is a tool designed with beginners in mind. I’d like you for a moment to consider how seeing something which negatively impacts you as a beginner could turn you off from being creative, joining a community, or expressing yourself. You might think that you’re unwelcome and as a result, never engage in that pursuit until it is too late.

Where did we find this language? Rule 1 is directly adapted from p5.js’ code of conduct, one of the most engaging, successful, and passionate communities of creative developers I have ever had the pleasure of taking part in. Their community is successful because of rules like these encouraging people that have been shunned from other communities to participate, not in spite of them.

The rule itself Rule 1 “Be Kind” refers to so much more than just a person, their religion, and their culture. It states that things like harassment, threats, and stalking, among other outright ridiculous behavior, is not allowed. Surely this is not an unreasonable set of rules to establish?

On “Free Speech”: These rules in no way stop you from creating content as you see fit, and absolutely do not infringe on your right to “Free Speech”. Although I’d hope that people would consider the types of content they are making with Wick Editor before they post it elsewhere it is not possible for a creative tool to outright stop someone from making content they disagree with. These rules simply create an expectation of civility, and positivity, when posting content here. We are not a government run public forum. We are, and always will be, a positive community of creatives. This is the community I want to build, and will work toward building as long as I have the power to do so.

On Rules In General: Clear, consistent rules are one of the only mechanisms for ensuring online communities run smoothly, and achieve the goals of the moderators. They provide us with a simple, easy to point to explanation of why certain posts, behavior and explanations are unacceptable.

In Closing

Lastly, @Monaco1, I’d be more than happy to engage in a discussion that further explains my reasoning for establishing these rules. Rather than simply dismiss these ideas out of hand, I recommend asking questions and having a dialogue about this.

To me, if so many people are establishing rules like this for their communities, maybe there is a good reason to at the very least consider them; consider why they are both appropriate and necessary in so many places; and, consider how these ideas do not stifle creativity but allow those who otherwise would not have a place to engage, or a voice to speak with, to finally have a comfortable place to express their opinions.

As a professional software developer, as a creative, and as a friend to so many people that have had to deal with disgusting vitriol online, I firmly believe rules like these are necessary for online communities.

2 Likes
#14

Wait, did one of my replies disappear… did it go against the rules?

Edit:
nvrmnd, it’s probably gone for a good reason

#15

Yes, it was to maintain the conversation in a positive context. It is fine.

1 Like
#16

Something else that might be worth taking into account is that some of the forum rules forbid more innocuous things - for example, off-topic posts are not permitted either. So if someone makes a post inviting other people to play Minecraft for example, that post goes against the forum rules for being off-topic. And you might say, “well, this isn’t hurting anyone, right?”, but it’s against the rules nonetheless. Even if something seems harmless, there could still be an understandable reason why it would just be more sensible to not permit it on the forum.

#17

I just found this video. maybe it will clear the air and help everyone to better understand the point that I’m trying to get across. Heres the link to the youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DTFz61lmjY
It’s a video made by an ex google tech lead. Skip to 5:01 Hopefully you guys can understand what I’m saying.
Also, I know that this forum is obviuosly not intended to be a place to debate hot topic issues.

#18

Skip to 5:01, The beginning of the video isn’t completely relevant to what we’re talking about.

#19

I think it’s a bit faulty to compare the Wick forums to social media platforms as large as Facebook, Twitter, etc. This is a smaller space for much more specific purpose…typically in those cases, the rules are going to a bit more rigid to fit that specific space. The point about off-topic posts for example - I pointed out that this would not be seen as “harmful” in a rude, offending sense. But it makes sense to not allow those sorts of posts on a forum specifically intended for a certain kind of software - it’s not really comparable to a giant social media platform like Twitter.

1 Like
#21

I can understand the desire to pull back and lash out at larger social media companies that may not apply rules evenly, but I do believe there is a significant distinction between Youtube, Twitter, Facebook and our relatively small forum.

Additionally, the forum is designed for specific content only relating to Wick Editor, rather than general social media. This forum doesn’t have multiple rooms or separate communities, or “influencers”, it’s one space so I do believe rules are necessary to keep things on topic and civil. Recently, we saw an uptick in non-Wick related content that was drowning out Wick-related content.

The rules I’ve chosen here were designed by a larger community than Wick Editor (With a few more Wick Editor specific notes thrown in). The p5.js community deliberated over the language used in their community guidelines (our “Rule 1”), and our project has adapted their rules after seeing the success they had.

I assure you, these rules will be applied as consistently as possible, with the intention of benefiting the community.

2 Likes
#23

Too easily

#24

“Free speech” should not allow me to go to someone else house and change their rules… At the end is not my house. There are so many places and forums in this world to talk about everything else…

It is a matter of expectations:
You are doing “free speech” here because this topic will not be erased. You are able to express yourself against something that matters to you. We can’t confused that by saying that since you are not agree with this rules, now the forums should change them. You can’t come with those expectations. If so, it is not “free speech” anymore.

#25

To make this argument stronger, there are people that get offended, or feel hurt, or disrespected, but cannot speak back or take a stand, and that leaves them in a dark mindset. People can say hurtful things without noticing, even I can break these rules without realizing, so it’s important to have a limit. yt, fb, twitter, and all of these other sites, like bluecake said, are different. They have people in there to stand up for wrong and right things, but here, were a small community.