I think it’s a bit faulty to compare the Wick forums to social media platforms as large as Facebook, Twitter, etc. This is a smaller space for much more specific purpose…typically in those cases, the rules are going to a bit more rigid to fit that specific space. The point about off-topic posts for example - I pointed out that this would not be seen as “harmful” in a rude, offending sense. But it makes sense to not allow those sorts of posts on a forum specifically intended for a certain kind of software - it’s not really comparable to a giant social media platform like Twitter.
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I can understand the desire to pull back and lash out at larger social media companies that may not apply rules evenly, but I do believe there is a significant distinction between Youtube, Twitter, Facebook and our relatively small forum.
Additionally, the forum is designed for specific content only relating to Wick Editor, rather than general social media. This forum doesn’t have multiple rooms or separate communities, or “influencers”, it’s one space so I do believe rules are necessary to keep things on topic and civil. Recently, we saw an uptick in non-Wick related content that was drowning out Wick-related content.
The rules I’ve chosen here were designed by a larger community than Wick Editor (With a few more Wick Editor specific notes thrown in). The p5.js community deliberated over the language used in their community guidelines (our “Rule 1”), and our project has adapted their rules after seeing the success they had.
I assure you, these rules will be applied as consistently as possible, with the intention of benefiting the community.
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Too easily
“Free speech” should not allow me to go to someone else house and change their rules… At the end is not my house. There are so many places and forums in this world to talk about everything else…
It is a matter of expectations:
You are doing “free speech” here because this topic will not be erased. You are able to express yourself against something that matters to you. We can’t confused that by saying that since you are not agree with this rules, now the forums should change them. You can’t come with those expectations. If so, it is not “free speech” anymore.
To make this argument stronger, there are people that get offended, or feel hurt, or disrespected, but cannot speak back or take a stand, and that leaves them in a dark mindset. People can say hurtful things without noticing, even I can break these rules without realizing, so it’s important to have a limit. yt, fb, twitter, and all of these other sites, like bluecake said, are different. They have people in there to stand up for wrong and right things, but here, were a small community.
Another thing is… who measures how much you hurt someone? Difficult to answer…
I think that it’s okay to politely say that you disagree with the ideas of a certain type of religion, but not okay to say that this certain religion sucks and is stupid. Is it?
Wick forums isn’t necessarily like Facebook, Twitter, etc. It’s not a giant community of millions of people showing off what they had for breakfast. It’s a small place to share positive and relevant stuff. Rules will vary between different types of environments. This forum is one variation.
You might think the rules are more restricting than protecting (or you don’t like it being too protecting, I don’t know), but every rule has a reason:
- safety: rule 0, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10
- respect: 1, 4
- efficiency: 2, 3, 6, 7
and so on.
Actually, you shouldn’t mention beliefs only if it was wick related and doesn’t point out a specific religion in a negative way. For example, you can share your point of view of life in a “made by wick” animation, it can go against other people’s beliefs, but don’t make it go against specific religion(s) you have on mind.
I’m not sure if what I just said is correct,
but ask @Luxapodular since he (with the help of other people) made the rules
Hey All, I’d like us to try to stick to the letter of the rules which at the moment are “Be Kind” in that comments which may be deemed “offensive” simply should not be shared on this forum. We are considering this in the most wide definition of the term.
There are a number of other places where debate and discussion on these topics may be held. The Wick Editor forum is not one of them.
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…
well, I just started doing a little online study about this, and something struck me. I feel like @Monaco1 does have a point about some of the stuff that he mentioned. I’m not usually the type of person to change his thoughts on things, but capable of defending any side that I’m on, so I prefer to support not the most reasonable side, but the one that makes more sense.
My argument
Monaco doesn’t seem to be against any of the rules as much as he’s against how those rules are enforced. The rules connect together like a chain in most cases, and focuses on making the forums more wick related, which is a good thing to stop off topic posts, but then this just makes it harder for people to share opinions about maybe something like covid, which isn’t wick related, yet everyone has the right to be concerned about it. Also, I know that this can be discussed on other places but how if were incapable of mentioning other places on the forums (according to rule 8)? It’s not like I can tell someone, “Hey, this seems off topic, let’s go on ** another website ** and discuss this”
I’m not trying to go against rule #4 or anything else here, I’m trying to keep my argument peaceful, and just sharing my thoughts
On the topic of “stifling creativity”, something that comes to mind for me are discussions about what is and isn’t considered “acceptable nudity”, which is also something that large social media platforms like Facebook have to consider. There are a lot of cases where someone could argue that nudity in a project could serve some kind of purpose - artistic, educational, scientific, etc. Still, there are some spaces where all nudity might be forbidden, regardless of what the supposed merits it might have. For me personally, there were many instances in college where I was exposed to nudity. For example, an art history course could feature classical Greek sculptures, which as you probably know, tend to feature explicit nudity. And in that case, the nudity is contextualized with an educational and historical context.
Now, if I were to (hypothetically) create a Wick project in that vein - something that features nudity but has an educational/historic context - I would actually be entirely uncomfortable with posting it to the forums here, with the knowledge that some users are under 16. I’m not even sure if it would technically allowed or not, what’s specifically prohibited is “Sexually explicit or violent material that is not contextualized and preceded by a considerate warning”, so for all I know, it might fall under an exception. But even if it hypothetically was allowed, I would still personally decide not to share this content on the forum, to keep it an open and acceptable space for minors, who may even be using this software in school. In the end, you have the ability to determine for yourself what does and doesn’t seem acceptable to post, and in the end, there is certainly the possibility that someone else may step in and deem your post unacceptable. But I think if you’re generally considering making this a productive space for programmers (including young beginners), most of the time it makes sense to be on the more cautious side.
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For some reason I was under the impression that users could privately message each other for specific situations as this…but is that actually not possible unless it’s from a forum moderator? I’m now realizing there isn’t really a pm option listed when you go to someone else’s profile.
@bluecake, u have a point (I do agree with you that it’s unacceptable) but I feel like that’s not the argument that is being attacked here. The topic that you discuss wouldn’t only go against the new rules, but as well as the code of conduct. Now, keep in mind that before the rules started, not a lot of people broke any of them, but after they started, it’s just that it feels like you have to follow these rules really strongly. Topics that would be a 100% off topic and spamming, of course, should stop happening, and sharing private information shouldn’t be allowed, and I really agree with almost all of the rules.
Also, it was possible to pm people, but they removed that feature (probably for a good reason)
EDIT:
To avoid getting into these types of arguments, I won’t have this topic as tracking, but as normal, so I might take longer to notice changes
original post about PM:
EDIT: this is Luxapodular’s response to the PM thing.
I see, I hadn’t realized. The pm option would make it easier to suggest other places to talk, but it would definitely be a security concern as well. And I can understand concerns about rules being too rigid (for example, a wick project about a potentially controversial topic that was not designed to be deliberately abrasive gets removed).
But I do feel like one thing that is being overlooked by the op is that this forum is just one potential place to share and discuss wick-related things, and it doesn’t affect your ability to create. I can’t see anything preventing the op from making a cartoon that pokes fun at some group and posting it on YouTube, Twitter, etc. It wouldn’t be permitted on the forum, but op is still free to post it anywhere else that would accept it. They are free to create whatever sort of project they want and express themselves however they want as long as they are using an outlet that allows that sort of expression.
On a side note, the only reason I brought up the nudity example was because that is an example of possible censorship of self-expression and creativity, which was the op’s main concern. At the end of the day, if you were an artist creating nude depictions of people, you would probably have to search for an outlet that allows that kind of content to be shared, and in some cases, you will have to accept that a certain organization/museum/client may not accept your content. It doesn’t mean you can’t create that content, but it’s up to you to find and build a space for that content by your own means. That’s a challenge that artists have contended with for centuries - it’s not a newfound concept created by modern political expectations. Édouard Manet might be hailed as a pioneer of the Impressionist movement today, but back in his day, his paintings were being rejected by famous art exhibitions like the Paris Salon for his controversial use of nudity. His response was to submit his artwork to a different exhibition. To me, this is a similar case - if you feel your content won’t be accepted on the forums, find a space that will - that is part of the experience of being an artist.
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Also, I’m sorry for making a very long post. Those are my honest opinions on the matter, but at this point there isn’t really anything more I can say. I’ll keep these concerns in mind should this issue occur again in the future (particularly in the case that someone has a post about a project removed). It’s definitely something that shouldn’t be entirely dismissed.
I see the type of argument that you’re making and how it’s connected to this, but let’s leave this specific type of example on the side.
ive written longer replies
Exactly. I’m glad that someone gets what I’m trying to say. 
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Well, we could discuss this without getting anywhere 
… you know why? Because, It is proved that we can’t satisfy all people. Not only in this regard, but in general. That is why we have so may different platforms. Every platform has its purpose and obviously rules to enforce that purpose.
Following that line, I can’t go to Facebook, for example, and post nudity. Facebook is not for that 
. I think that there are other platforms for that. Facebook has their rules and people that wants to use that platform must follow those rules. Facebook rules maintain the identity of what the platform should use for.
A personal example… I would love to post things regarding my religion 
, because that really defines me, and I know that it could be very beneficial to other etc… but this forum is not for that, I can’t use it for that.
Lastly, in my 3 months experience using this forum every single day, it has been a pretty good experience, like a distant family 
. All of us has different characteristics that define our personality. We are in fact different. Let keep sharing things that unite us 
, not the ones that separate us.
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